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You guys have been so supportive and helpful that I thought I would turn to you once again for your advice.
I am often scared that something is seriously wrong with me. I am constantly exhausted, and at times am overwhelmed with it. Sometimes I collapse on my couch after work -- even after just a four hour shift, and lie there breathing heavily for 2+ hours. All I can do is feel my breathing and my heartbeat. I can't sleep, nor can I do any useful thinking. My mind drifts, and I feel as if I am dying. Of course, I have no idea what it feels like to be dying, but when it's all I can do to lie completely still, when breathing takes up all my energy and is all I can concentrate on; I worry.
I used to hike up a mountain about once a year. About 5 or 6 years ago, I suddenly could not do it without stopping and resting and catching my breath every few minutes. It was dramatically different than what I was used to my body being able to do. There was no reason for it that I could think of, except that I'd passed the age of 40.
My mental faculties have disintegrated greatly. My ability to concentrate, remember things, use judgment, problem solve, or just plain think has been greatly reduced. I can barely function at work, and when I am home, I am too tired to do the physical tasks, and unable to do the mental tasks that I would like to do. I am way behind in my correspondence with friends, because I sometimes cannot complete an email. I have always been a writer, and I have a constant flow of ideas and lots of material to work from, but I do not have the mental energy to write. I write one or two sentences, and then am exhausted.
This is all very scary and sad to me. I have a very strong urge to create, and I used to be a talented writer. Now it can take me several minutes to think of a common word that I cannot recall. To write just one page is overwhelming - and something I haven't done in years. [I can write a post like this because it doesn't take any creative energy, I just write what I'm thinking, and spend a lot of time editing afterwards.]
Can this all be due to the fact that for years I have only been sleeping 3-4 hours per night, interrupted by apneas? I used to be able to sleep five hours, 5 or 6 years ago. I've had a lifetime of insomnia, and sleep has just been dwindling over the years.
Another factor I wonder about is that I take the generic form of Klonopin. I only take 2 mg. per night, to help me fall back asleep with my frequent awakenings. I wonder sometimes if it is the klonopin that makes me so overwhelmingly tired. Yet that would not explain the decline in mental functioning.
My physician's assistant assumes that my chronic fatigue is due to my sleep problems. I guess because I've had sleep problems my entire life, and yet have NEVER felt this tired until recently, and in my earlier years was able to function fairly well - I often feel as if there must be something more serious going on that we don't know about.
Since you all have at least one sleep disorder, I wonder if you can tell me if what I described is common with long-term sleep disorders.
Thanks so much.
I am often scared that something is seriously wrong with me. I am constantly exhausted, and at times am overwhelmed with it. Sometimes I collapse on my couch after work -- even after just a four hour shift, and lie there breathing heavily for 2+ hours. All I can do is feel my breathing and my heartbeat. I can't sleep, nor can I do any useful thinking. My mind drifts, and I feel as if I am dying. Of course, I have no idea what it feels like to be dying, but when it's all I can do to lie completely still, when breathing takes up all my energy and is all I can concentrate on; I worry.
I used to hike up a mountain about once a year. About 5 or 6 years ago, I suddenly could not do it without stopping and resting and catching my breath every few minutes. It was dramatically different than what I was used to my body being able to do. There was no reason for it that I could think of, except that I'd passed the age of 40.
My mental faculties have disintegrated greatly. My ability to concentrate, remember things, use judgment, problem solve, or just plain think has been greatly reduced. I can barely function at work, and when I am home, I am too tired to do the physical tasks, and unable to do the mental tasks that I would like to do. I am way behind in my correspondence with friends, because I sometimes cannot complete an email. I have always been a writer, and I have a constant flow of ideas and lots of material to work from, but I do not have the mental energy to write. I write one or two sentences, and then am exhausted.
This is all very scary and sad to me. I have a very strong urge to create, and I used to be a talented writer. Now it can take me several minutes to think of a common word that I cannot recall. To write just one page is overwhelming - and something I haven't done in years. [I can write a post like this because it doesn't take any creative energy, I just write what I'm thinking, and spend a lot of time editing afterwards.]
Can this all be due to the fact that for years I have only been sleeping 3-4 hours per night, interrupted by apneas? I used to be able to sleep five hours, 5 or 6 years ago. I've had a lifetime of insomnia, and sleep has just been dwindling over the years.
Another factor I wonder about is that I take the generic form of Klonopin. I only take 2 mg. per night, to help me fall back asleep with my frequent awakenings. I wonder sometimes if it is the klonopin that makes me so overwhelmingly tired. Yet that would not explain the decline in mental functioning.
My physician's assistant assumes that my chronic fatigue is due to my sleep problems. I guess because I've had sleep problems my entire life, and yet have NEVER felt this tired until recently, and in my earlier years was able to function fairly well - I often feel as if there must be something more serious going on that we don't know about.
Since you all have at least one sleep disorder, I wonder if you can tell me if what I described is common with long-term sleep disorders.
Thanks so much.
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Re: Could this all be from lack of sleep?
Tue, January 27, 2009 - 8:43 AMI have absolutely NO medical training and can only speak from my own personal experience -- for ME, the overwhelming fatigue, which was absolutely horrendous, ended within a few months with nightly use of my CPAP.
Before I had my CPAP, I would finally crawl out of bed around 11am; only to go back to bed around 1pm, wake maybe at 4pm and then head back to bed around 8pm. I had NO life and didn't know what was happening to me. And in my case, it was all from the severe obstructive sleep apnea and after treatment, I've gotten a much more normal life back. I got a life back and my husband says he got his wife back! -
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Re: Could this all be from lack of sleep?
Tue, January 27, 2009 - 9:02 AMDean, honey,
Something IS seriously wrong with you - you have OSA. I think we tend to downplay it's seriousness, but dude, it means YOU STOP BREATHING for a period of time. I know for me, at my highest during the test, I stopped breathing 22 times a minute. If you don't think that seriously Fs you up, you're wrong!
The other thing that I know from personal experience is that you could be suffering from depression. I'm happy to PM with you offline if you want to explore this a bit. I know that my doc says that 1 in 6 people with depression also have OSA. That's a pretty high incidence from where I sit!
(BTW, I'm the moderator of the depression tribe. You might want to check that out.)
Best of luck and good healing energy in your healing,
Darla -
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Re: Could this all be from lack of sleep?
Tue, January 27, 2009 - 11:30 AMThank you Leah and Darla! It IS reassuring to know that this is a common effect of OSA. (I only stop breathing once per minute, but I also only sleep 3 or 4 hours at most per night, and usually about once a week, I stay up all night.)
You are right that I tend to downplay it. It may be perhaps because for years my doctors, specifically, my former sleep doctor, downplayed it. I was denied a sleep study the first time I went to see him, because, based upon my answers on a questionnaire, he decided that my sleep problem was not serious enough. I learned to play the game and put the "right" answers down on the form in order to get a study. I have so much anger towards that doctor, and the medical field in general which takes the stance that you have to be disabled before they will treat you for something. If I was given a CPAP years ago, when I first sought it out, who knows - I might be functioning at a much higher level now, rather than thinking of applying for disability.
And Darla, yes, I do have depression; have had it all my life - that was another factor doctors have used to deny me help with my sleep problems. They told me my lack of sleep was due to my depression. No amount of therapy, and no anti-depressant has ever helped me sleep. There's a chicken-and-egg question here: does OSA make one depressed, or does depression feed into OSA? I think the former is true. On the rare occasion when I did get a good night's sleep, I have felt wonderful the next day. I know that lack of sleep contributes to depression.
Thanks for the invitation to your tribe, too Darla. I already belong to the tribe for Gay Men with Depression, and I am very happy with that tribe. I also have a circle of close Tribe friends who experience both depression and sleep problems, and we give each other support. And I'm on a ning network for people with invisible disabilities, which includes depression.
Thank you again - your responses are extremely helpful; now I can stop worrying that I have something ELSE wrong with me!
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Re: Could this all be from lack of sleep?
Wed, January 28, 2009 - 4:01 PMDean..do you have painful spots on your body..when you apply pressure to them..
neck ..back ..shoulders..breastbone?
cause you could have fibro myalgia..from what you are talking about..
but body pain..and pressure pain is the number one symptom..
and yep..its a sleep disorder too..
if so.. you should go to a rhumatologist.. to get checked out!
just a suggestion..or thought on what you are describing..
sounds like chronic fatigue too...
and that is autoimmune..as is the fibro..as is asthma too.. do you have asthma?
oh it probably sounds like a lot of things.. I hope you ..get yourself..checked out good..
but not sleeping ..causes a lot of these things too.. -
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Re: Could this all be from lack of sleep?
Wed, January 28, 2009 - 5:49 PMMan, I LOVE this group. You are all so caring and sharing - that sounds SOOOO lame, but I mean it in the best possible way. You all extend yourselves and share your information and experiences so freely.
I love you, man!
P.S. Does this habit make me look fat? -
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Re: Could this all be from lack of sleep?
Wed, January 28, 2009 - 6:21 PMnah the gun..is diagonal..very slimming!
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Re: Could this all be from lack of sleep?
Fri, January 30, 2009 - 7:48 PMHey Dean...
Before I started getting better sleep, I was experiencing the following symptoms:
1. Fatigue - just felt a general lack of energy at a depth I hever felt before. I felt like I had aged a few decades in a few years.
2. Loss of concentration - I started to wonder if I had adult ADD. Just could not focus for extended periods. In the past, as an art student I had incredible focus and was able to work all day in my studio without doing much else besides eating, using the restroom and taking short breaks about 2-3 times during 8 hours.
3. I would wake up in the middle of the night panicked, with heart racing and feeling like something had just scared the s--t out of me. I think it was abrupt sleep disruption due to the apnea and the suffocating effects.
4. Depression - my doctors tell me that my tendencies flared up with the years of lack of sleep. Went into full blown depression with OCD blowing up in my face.
5. Daytime sleepiness - it got to where my 30 minute drive to work would find me nodding off at every stoplight. I would literally pass out at work every day around 3:30-4:00 pm despite tons of energy drinks or coffee. Thankfully, I was in the video game industry where people staying up all night working or playing or living at the office was commonplace.
6. I used to sleep on and off all day on Sundays and NEVER feel rested. In fact, I felt even more exhausted. Knowing what apnea does, it is very likely this was true. I feel better on 4 hours with my BiPap than I do with 10 hours off of it.
7. Anxiety
Since then, many of the symptoms have been dissipating. I don't wake up panicked and although I can feel that my energy still isn't what it used to be, it is much better than before. I can actually exercise and drive long distances. Daytime sleepiness only shows up when I don't sleep enough and I am starting to concentrate better again. But things aren't perfect. Just better.
Not sure what to add about the Klonopin. Brief check online says its a benzo class drug. I figure it will probably have some side effects that are like those from depressants. Since I have insomnia too, I have been using medical cannabis. It works for me. About 1-2 hours after using it, I get really sleepy and sleep better. However, for some people it has the opposite effect. And, some strains make me a bit wired.
Another drug you might want to try is Rozerem. Its a weird drug - can't really be classified so they controlled it anyway. It isn't narcotic - its a melatonin agonist (it motivates the production and uptake of melatonin which directly affects sleep cycles). It did make me sleep for sure. But I was a bit wonky the next day. I think, however, that I am atypical. I have never done well with brain meds (drugs that are not narcotic but affect brain chemistry). Anyway, no lasting negative stuff after my try of Rozerem. I think most docs can give you a starter kit for free to try it out. Have you already tried the Ambien/Lunesta approach?
Good luck, Dean.
MC -
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Re: Could this all be from lack of sleep?
Sun, February 8, 2009 - 5:36 PMThanks again, y'all.
Heroness - I don't have the kind of pain you describe or asthma. I do lose a lot of oxygen when I speak due to Spasmodic Dysphonia, a neurological vocal cord disorder that causes the muscles of the larnyx to spasm during speech. A lot of times, I sound as if I have asthma because I expell a lot of air when I speak and get out of breath easily.
MC - omg, your list of symptoms really does put me at ease that all my symptoms could be caused by ONE thing: long-term sleep deprivation. I don't know if I mentioned it before, but I, too, have symptoms of ADD and was given a verbal diagnosis for it. With me, I'm not sure how much the C-PAP will help, because I have at least 3 sleep disorders: OSA, RLS, and insomnia.
Leah - thank you so much for mentioning that it took months of using your CPAP regularly for your symptoms to disappear. I was going to ask how long it generally takes. I have been using the C-PAP for a week now, and I am still very tired during the day.
MC, re: sleep drugs - I use Ambien on top of my Klonopin when I really need to get to sleep. It has short-term effectiveness for me, so I take it only on occasion. Lunesta was like taking nothing. I haven't heard of Rozerem. I did try Melatonin pills years ago and they did nothing.
yeah, Benzos do cause sleepiness (which is why I've been taking them for years), and Klonopin has a long half-life, so it could be contributing to my daytime sleepiness. On the other hand, it helps me sleep at night, even after years of taking it. No other class of drug that I've tried has worked for me for sleep, particularly on a regular basis. Ambien by itself might give me 4 hours of sleep for one night, but not for more than one.
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Re: Could this all be from lack of sleep?
Sun, February 8, 2009 - 9:37 PMD: "I did try Melatonin pills years ago and they did nothing."
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I am thinking the Rozerem might not do much. All it is supposed to do is help with the release of Melatonin.
More power to you as you begin to slowly gain back some sleep. Phew.
Peace.
MC -
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Re: Could this all be from lack of sleep?
Mon, February 9, 2009 - 8:21 PMFrom what I understand, Rozeram isn't supposed to make you sleep but rather to enhance your ability to go BACK to sleep. I have used it once or twice, and that is the effect it had on me. I would be hesitant to lump it in with melatonin simply because I had a very negative reaction to melatonin. Apparently in about 1% of the population it can have a stimulant effect and I flopped around and had one of the most miserable nights of "sleep" in my life. Rozeram was much more peaceful and gentle - FOR ME.
My husband takes melatonin when he needs a good night's sleep and it works like a charm for him, so go figure. Caveat emptor. -
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Re: Could this all be from lack of sleep?
Tue, February 10, 2009 - 7:23 PMGood clarification, Darla. It is definitely not an analogue to melatonin. Just an agonist. The drug itself does nothing directly towards sleep. It just helps affect brain chemistry that hopefully affects sleep. It made me feel wonky.
One thing for sure, everybody surely seems to have different response to different approaches. Which is why I love this tribe. No doctor can really explain with any real experiential knowledge the spectrum of approaches we all try out. And, unless the doctor his or herself has apnea, there really is no way to have a true sense of empathy or sympathy as do the people who are on this board.
MC
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